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Welcome to the newest episode of the Music Enterprise Worldwide Podcast. The MBW Podcast is supported by Voly Music. On this episode, MBW founder Tim Ingham speaks to Forrest Browning, co-founder and Chief Product Officer at California-headquartered music streaming service, Audius.
Audius is likely one of the most talked-about new digital streaming startups in right this moment’s music enterprise.
Powered by Internet 3.0 know-how – keep in mind that?! – it describes itself as a “world decentralized music neighborhood and discovery platform that places the artist in management”.
What that basically means is that Audius allows artists to attach instantly with their ‘superfans’, whereas providing these superfans the chance to pay extra for entry to coveted digital merchandise and treats – together with uncommon catalog recordings, and even official permission to remix a monitor.
Audius boasts over 7 million distinctive month-to-month customers on its platform, and has attracted funding from some spectacular individuals – each music artists and music executives.
In 2021, Audius accepted a USD $5 million funding spherical that included financing from the likes of Katy Perry, Nas, and the Chainsmokers, in addition to SESAC CEO John Josephson, former Sony Music Publishing boss Marty Bandier, Three Six Zero founder Mark Gillespie, and all-round music biz mogul Man Oseary.
On this Music Enterprise Worldwide podcast, MBW founder, Tim Ingham, speaks to Audius’ co-founder and Chief Product Officer, Forrest Browning, about what differentiates his firm from different music streaming platforms.
Additionally mentioned: how Audius’ mannequin suits more and more snugly with clamoring from main music firm bosses, not least Common Music Group’s Sir Lucian Grainge, for a greater industrial relationship with music’s superfans.
Hearken to the podcast interview above, or learn an abridged model of the Q&A under…
For many who don’t know, Forrest, might you simply give us a fast Newbie’s Information to Audius?
Audius is a music neighborhood and discovery platform that places artists instantly in management. You may virtually consider it as a decentralized UGC platform, harking back to how SoundCloud was again within the day.
It empowers artists to have a direct connection to their fan base, and to interact on a deeper stage than they can do on different main DSPs.
Speak us by way of among the ways in which artists are utilizing Audius to faucet into ‘superfans’.
Numerous the issues that we’re capable of do uniquely are powered by Internet 3.0, cryptocurrency, and issues like that. You don’t have to know any of that as a person, a fan, or an artist. Nevertheless it allows us to provide our shoppers and customers extra performance than they’ll get in a traditional Internet 2.0 ecosystem.
Our positioning right here, in some ways, is all about superfans.
Audius [today] has about 7 or 8 million month-to-month energetic customers. Numerous our preliminary traction was in digital music and hip-hop, and a number of the artists that do properly on Audius should not essentially placing up the identical catalog that they’ve on all the main DSPs [like] Spotify or Apple Music.
As a substitute, what tends to do very well on Audius is that this grassroots kind of direct interplay – perhaps [via] b-sides, or long-form DJ units.
“Primarily, what Audius has constructed up at this level is 7 or 8 million month-to-month energetic superfans.”
For a lot of DJs, for each 10 songs that win up on their album, there are 30 extra on a tough drive in a closet someplace, tracks that by no means noticed the sunshine of day for one purpose or one other. These issues wind up on Audius.
Frankly, locations like TIDAL, Apple Music, Spotify… these are nice for almost all of your fan base. However the issue is [that approach] treats all followers as basically the identical. It doesn’t let you have a deeper engagement with these superfans – of us who wish to actually dig in and go to a deeper stage.
Possibly not all your followers care about [rarities, or the chance to remix your tracks]. However some share of your followers completely do – perhaps the highest 1% or the highest 5% of your fan base will go wherever you set that content material as a result of they wish to have interaction on a extra significant, deeper stage.
So basically what Audius has constructed up at this level is 7 or 8 million month-to-month energetic superfans.
[For example] a number of digital artists, once they add a monitor [to Audius], additionally add the accompanying stem recordsdata. In order that’s what’s type of cool is you may say: For my followers, in the event that they comply with me on Audius, they’ll obtain the drums, or regardless of the completely different points of the songs are. After which you may run remix competitions [based on those samples].
It’s a well timed second within the evolution of the music trade to be speaking to you. One of many dominant themes in MBW’s reporting this 12 months has been the evolution of the royalty streaming mannequin. I’m positive you noticed the letter from Sir Lucian Grange hinting at the concept completely different ranges of fandom ought to be rewarded and monetized in several methods on streaming providers. Do you assume the music trade is leaving cash on the desk by not charging superfans on streaming platforms otherwise than it costs common followers?
Sure. Audius has been stay since late 2019; we’ve been beating this drum for 4 or 5 years. That’s core to what Audius does: determining methods to assist monetize and interact followers at completely different ranges.
You may look during the last 50 or 60 years of the music trade and the worth of a [play] has gone down dramatically, virtually to zero.
Again within the day, you’d need to maybe purchase your complete vinyl report to have the ability to hear to at least one track. Then there’s been cassette tapes and CDs and varied evolutions, then iTunes unbundling [the album]. And each step of the way in which, the worth of 1 specific track – or, particularly, of 1 specific stream – has gone down and right down to the purpose the place right this moment you may hearken to [any] track on streaming providers or YouTube, and it’s ad-supported [with] minuscule [royalty payments], basically a [fraction] of a penny per stream.
I believe the larger image, and that is the place individuals miss the forest for the timber, is that [streaming model] solely values each listener at the very same fee – together with the informal fan. It’s virtually the bottom widespread denominator by way of how one can monetize [listeners].
“There’s a world right here the place everybody comes away from this pleased – the place the informal followers can proceed to pay [roughly] what they pay proper now on the main DSPs, however the superfans can pull out 5-10 [extra] bucks a month.”
Take into consideration a bell curve – on the suitable aspect of the bell curve, the highest 5% to 10% of your fandom – these should not informal followers. These are of us that may gladly pay a bit bit more cash to go deeper and get additional content material or additional entry that isn’t out there elsewhere.
I believe there’s a world right here the place everybody comes away from this pleased – the place the informal followers can proceed to pay [roughly] what they pay proper now on the main DSPs. However the superfans can pull out 5-10 [extra] bucks a month and get entry to a fan membership, or particular entry to stuff, to get extra content material.
It’s ‘select your individual journey’. We’ve type of reached some extent the place in the previous couple of years [the value of a stream] has hit, frankly, all-time low. The one place you may go from there may be up. And I believe we return up and rebuild by including extra optionality for shoppers.
We will’t count on that everybody is simply going to be okay waking up tomorrow and doubling the value that they pay to Spotify each month. However I believe there are attention-grabbing methods that you may monetize completely different followers at completely different charges. [Casual video game giant] Zynga and all these other people have confirmed this out over the previous couple of a long time.
Are you excited – or in any other case – by having a large-scale firm like Common Music Group begin to flip its consideration in the direction of the crux of the factor that you simply’ve been creating these previous few years?
I believe it’s improbable! To be clear, I believe everybody on this complete music ecosystem [to date] has been appearing rationally – particularly the majors. Main [record company] DSP streaming income has been [growing at] virtually at a J curve. So why kill the golden goose?
These main streaming platforms have managed to rebuild a manner the place [labels] can recoup a number of that cash that was flying out the door within the a long time previous to that. So I completely get it [why they haven’t challenged the typical streaming model more regularly].
“There’s solely 300-and-some million individuals within the US. In some unspecified time in the future, everyone is aware of about Spotify; They’re both paying for it, or they’ve the ad-supported model. There simply [won’t be] any extra individuals to drag out bank cards.”
However now you may have a look at all of the numbers, the curves, by way of [global streaming] subscriber development, and there’s a saturation level, proper? There’s solely 300-and-some million individuals within the US. In some unspecified time in the future, everyone on Earth, or not less than everyone within the US, is aware of about Spotify. They’re both paying for it, or they’ve the ad-supported model. There simply [won’t be] any extra individuals to drag out bank cards. And so the sum of money that you simply’re going to make month-to-month from that informal fan base is capped.
And so the apparent [next step], if you wish to continue to grow income, is to start out serious about different monetization methods. That’s the place our viewers is available in.
4 or 5 years in the past, once we began Audius, of us, on the entire, had been, ‘No – shut up! We’re lastly simply getting the practice again on the tracks – issues are lastly steady! Why would we wish to rock the boat?’
However now, it’s like, okay, issues are so steady that perhaps they’re [becoming] flat from a income perspective. So if we wish to get that [growth curve] going once more, we have to work out new methods so as to add income.
Very importantly, Audius is massively non-competitive with present DSPs. And I believe that’s how the labels take into consideration these items, too: You’ve received to develop the pie, it could possibly’t be a zero-sum situation.
Difficult query: What’s Audius’ most strong USP? Because the music trade begins to show in the direction of a dialogue concerning the ‘tremendous fan’ being ripe with financial risk, what’s stopping a Spotify or an Apple Music and so on. from launching components of what you’re speaking about: locked off areas of their providers for extra passionate fan bases, for a further worth?
I believe you’re precisely proper. I’m positive all the prevailing providers will attempt to do one thing to this impact. However actually, I’m very assured the place Audius sits within the ecosystem, [so] that received’t be an issue.
On the finish of the day, candidly, no matter grows the [streaming revenue] ecosystem is healthier for everybody, together with Audius. If a 3rd occasion [DSP] decides so as to add [Audius-like elements for superfans], I don’t assume it’ll essentially work tremendous properly; I don’t assume they’ll have the identical stage of engagement [as Audius], or the info transparency [we have] by way of figuring out which of your followers are superfans, having the ability to have interaction on that deeper stage, having the transparency of what [individual superfans] pay, and have [that money] go straight to you as an artist, in a matter of seconds.
In the case of Internet 3.0, the area strikes rapidly. It’s actually, actually exhausting to remain on prime of that, particularly if you happen to’re a Internet 2.0 firm.
